Delayed Sound

Job one is installing the Miditzer and getting it configured
markey111
Senior Member
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:08 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12
Location: halifax west yorkshire uk

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by markey111 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:27 pm

thanks Jim looks complicated lol
I have just tried the organ thru the headfones/headfone jack for the first time..direct from the computer.... no latency at all, with miditzer priority at normal, the difference is unbelievable.

fotso
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:06 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by fotso » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:16 am

Do also check the "tone" setting or the "velocity curve" settings.

I use a Casio WK8000 keyboard for the solo & I notice that if the tone is set to "Drawbar Organ mode", latency (delayed sound) is much lower than if the tone is left on the default "Stereo piano".

Perhaps, the "velocity curve" of the default "piano tone" in some retail keyboards & digital pianos do contribute to the increased latency (delayed sound) when playing the miditzer.

Since my discovery, I have always use the "organ mode" on the Casio keyboard to play the miditzer. I have also turned off the "velocity setting" of my m-audio Oxygen 61. This keyboard now instantly output note-on at constant value of 64 making it behave like an organ keyboard(rather than like a piano with delayed hammers).

User avatar
Jim Henry
Admin Group
Posts: 6160
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 11:44 pm
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12
Location: United States

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by Jim Henry » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:40 am

Hi fotso,

Welcome to the Miditzer Forum. You are posting on a thread that has been inactive for a long time. Activity in this Forum has gotten very low. But I do still drop in regularly and try to answer questions as best I can. You will probably get a better answer by starting a new topic that describes your configuration and the issues you are having.

It seems like you are concerned about the delay between pressing a key and hearing the sound. This is a complicated issue because the Miditzer does not produce any sound at all! The Miditzer receives MIDI messages and then produces different MIDI messages to simulate the sound of a Wurlitzer pipe organ based on the MIDI messages it received. Something else has to take the MIDI messages produced by the Miditzer and turn them into sound. That is where almost all the delays occur.

To make it easier to get started using the Miditzer, the FluidSynth software synthesizer is set up as part of the installation process of the Miditzer. There are configuration changes that can reduce the delays when using FluidSynth. Or you can configure the Miditzer to send the MIDI Out messages elsewhere to be turned into sound. The possibilities are almost endless. This can become a very complex issue if you want it to be.

FWIW, there is a considerable delay between pressing a key and hearing the sound when you play a real Wurlitzer pipe organ. A lot of that is due simply to the distance between the pipes and the organist. Sound only travels about 1000 ft/sec. Pipes can easily be 40 feet from the organist. So it might take 40 mSec for the sound to reach the organist. Most people start to hear a delay when it exceeds 20 mSec.
Jim Henry

csw900
Groupie
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:01 pm
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by csw900 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:38 am

Hi Jim

Yes I am still looking at your forum now and again to see if anything interesting crops up.

I think most users (including me) would regard the fluidsynth component as being part of the Miditzer. The Miditzer will not do anything of much use without it.

However I think you have missed the fotso's point. As indicated by fotso, the latency in this case is in the Casio WK8000 keyboard not the Miditzer. Also it can be removed by using the keyboard in the correct "organ mode".

We all know that Miditzer latency is negligible (including the fluidsynth). If there is any noticeable latency it will be due to using the Miditzer on a computer without a suitable hardware sound card (or suitable built in sound system such as HD sound).

csw900

rostant
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:00 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by rostant » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:04 am

Do also check the "tone" setting or the "velocity curve" settings.

I use a Casio WK8000 keyboard for the solo & I notice that if the tone is set to "Drawbar Organ mode", latency (delayed sound) is much lower than if the tone is left on the default "Stereo piano".

Perhaps, the "velocity curve" of the default "piano tone" in some retail keyboards & digital pianos do contribute to the increased latency (delayed sound) when playing the miditzer.

Since my discovery, I have always use the "organ mode" on the Casio keyboard to play the miditzer. I have also turned off the "velocity setting" of my m-audio Oxygen 61. This keyboard now instantly output note-on at constant value of 64 making it behave like an organ keyboard(rather than like a piano with delayed hammers).

pronosoft
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:50 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by pronosoft » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:27 pm

Tried all of the above ( buffer down to 4) and still a massive delay making it near impossible to play anything above 160 bpm which is a damm shame as the samples are
fantastic on the 260, "tower ballroom" quint and tierce are to die for. Running windows 7 ,250 gig hd,3 gig memory and only running miditzer on it. Midisport 2x2 interface for the yamaha hx3 (accomp,great, pedal)and casio keyboard(solo) seems to be a greater delay on the solo

User avatar
Jim Henry
Admin Group
Posts: 6160
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 11:44 pm
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12
Location: United States

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by Jim Henry » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:03 am

Hi pronosoft and welcome to the Miditzer community.

Can you define "massive delay"? The delays being discussed here are what we call latency, which are the delays created by the time it takes the computer to compute the shape of the audio signal and send it to your sound hardware to be turned into sound. These delays are on the order of 10s to 100s of milliseconds. A quarter of a second would be an extremely long delay for a latency delay. For most people, delays become noticeable when they are longer than 20 milliseconds (a fiftieth of a second).

Other types of problems can introduce much longer delays of many seconds. These can be amusing as you play something and then sit back and listen to the computer catch up to you.

Your description of the delay as massive and the seeming inability to affect it with the techniques described in this thread makes me suspect that you are dealing with some problem other than latency.

If you think that you have a problem other than latency or if you are still unsure, please start a new thread a describe things in more detail so we can try to help you track down the issue(s). If you are pretty sure it is a latency issue, then we can continue the discussion here. It should be solvable. There are people who use the Miditzer for live public performances.
Jim Henry

adsvoo
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:35 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by adsvoo » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:37 am

Tried all of the above ( buffer down to 4) and still a massive delay making it near impossible to play anything above 160 bpm which is a damm shame as the samples are fantastic on the 260, "tower ballroom" quint and tierce are to die for. Running windows 7 ,250 gig hd,3
gig
memory and only running miditzer on it. Midisport 2x2 interface for the yamaha hx3 (accomp,great, pedal)and casio keyboard(solo) seems to be a greater delay on the solo

csw900
Groupie
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:01 pm
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by csw900 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:11 am

To pronosoft

You have indicated your computer system as Windows 7 + unimportant details; but have omitted the most important detail - the sound system. In order to run any organ on a computer the computer MUST have a HARDWARE based sound system. Software based sound systems such as you might find in a cheap computer will never perform fast enough to make an organ playable.

You need to check that your computer has HD sound built in. If not, a hardware sound system can be added to any computer by installing a suitable hardware sound card.

csw900

pronosof
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:56 am
Spam Stopper: theatre organ
How many Style 216 did Wurlitzer make?: 12

Re: Delayed Sound

Post by pronosof » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:58 am

It might be cheaper and easier to rescue an old computer that still has a copy of XP and use that as your Miditzer computer. It doesn't take an uber-computer to run the Miditzer.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests